France and surrogacy

Apart from the obvious - ie. it is illegal to have a child by a surrogate in France, there are also some less obvious elements which I thought I'd list

For starters, there's no information anywhere. Hence why I bother writing this blog. Even doctors don't know a thing about it. I am apparently the first ever kidney patient in Paris' biggest kidney hospital (Necker) to be going down this route. The IVF lady I'm going off to see isn't sure how she's going to get my embryos released for me to take abroad either.

That takes us to my second point. I can have the IVF treatment in France, link my jewels up with the other conkers and produce little humans, but then I can't have MY (I emphasize the possession here) little beings to do with what I want. I can't then take them over to another country if my purpose is, heaven forbid, surrogacy. I can get a note from the Food and Drugs Association in the US to get through the beeping and lasers at the airports and not frazzle the little humans on their first transatlantic flight, but I wouldn't get that far as I'll be met with security guards and custom officials when I try and open the fridge door in France.

So, we look at our bank accounts once more, and join dots and make calls and recognise that this is a game for stubborn people, and stubborn I'm going to have to become.

Yes, I'll do the treatment here, yes I'll work out how to connect them with someone in the UK (who's more lax on the relinquishing possession front), yes I'll then work out how to connect them with someone in the US, and then, abracadabra, little humans maybe get a chance to defrost.

pics on Sodahead
It's minus 6 outside, and it's almost Christmas. This is a frosty Christmas story for you. I can not believe I'm the first to work all of this out. If anyone's been through all this before, please drop me a line? I'm looking for some thawing advice.

Thanks

Meeting with a Surrogacy Agency

Having spent 3 hours listening about adoption from the French, we thought it only fair to listen to 3 hours about surrogacy from an Agency. A US agency, of course, for whom 25% of their clients come from France. Clever monkeys.

I learnt several odd things.
For our roughly $90K, we could start with IVF in France, bringing over frozen embryos on the plane with a piece of paper from the 'Food and Drugs Association' in the US to show to their customs officers explaining why we're carrying 'blood related materials'. (Made me laugh to think that, if we were to do this, that journey with the embryos in a box under my seat would be the closest I'd get to gestation). Hey, gee, to be sure we get enough embryos over time, we could buy an 'Embryo package deal'. How simply marvelous.

Men don't have the same problems with freezing or thawing their own jewels. Sperm could survive if used to stick down a stamp on an envelope and sent like that hrough the post to the US. That means women could still get pregnant from that stamp if it was inserted in the right place. Makes you think twice about sleeping in dirty sheets, doesn't it...?

Anyway, you hand over your genetics and they're 'transferred' into the surrogate (for $5K) who you've already chatted with on skype to introduce yourself and check you get on. This is a relationship, according to the agency we met. You're going to be in close contact with this lady - to the extent that some might demand to have you in the delivery room at the end of the day - so your relationship is very important from Day 1.

You spend the weekend with her and her family, and then potter back home. You can then make trips for the 3 month scan, finished with a trip lasting roughly 2-4 weeks (depending on how easy the birth is and if they're twins) for the birth.

I'm 32 so my eggs are almost of 'donor value'. That's to say, they shouldn't be too far off the gold standard that they get from their donors. (Super donors, I discovered are 23 years old and have given eggs that have been successfully implanted in the past. Sigh. It's sad to be told up front you're past your prime.) If frozen, my eggs/the embryos lose about 5% of their success rate only so my probabilities of success per transfer are as follows:

1. 65%
2. 77%
3. 93%

Not bad.

All told, with legal fees, medical fees, insurance fees for the surrogate if they don't have it, travel for the surrogate to the clinics, monthly charges for food/clothes, and the fee that goes to the surrogate for her time, it's 90K. Add on 5-8 for twins, add on 5 per extra transfer you need to make, add on 10 if you can't get frozen embryos and need to go to the US for IVF, and you're getting the full picture.

They explained that not many of their 'intended parents' (ie people like us) were of our age because this thing is so darned expensive.

They said more French do it than Brits because while French think about science fiction behind it, so do the Brits but they also care deeply what their neighbours think of it too --->

Those are the options. Question now is if we want either of them, or whether the hand that Fate has dealt is the option we should take instead. The update on the kidney, so you know, is the results got worse again, going up to 190 and then 193 over the past month (I need to be at 160 maximum). My chances of getting a 'oh go orrrn and give it a go' from the doc are now not very likely. What would you do?

Adoption - it ain't easy.

Yesterday was an 'information day' we attended to be steamrollered with the reality of stats, waiting times, and massive punches to the head about adoption.

There are 24,000 people in France who have a certificate saying they can adopt children. That's the same amount of children as there are in the entire world who are up for adoption.

There might be millions of children in poverty and in need of loving, caring parents, but they're not up for adoption unless a judge has ruled as such. Quite right too.

Once they're up for adoption, it's a mad scramble by hopeful parents and adoption agencies from loads of countries trying to get their feet in the door first. This leads to countries creating incredible demands for adoptive parents.

• Colombia put up ads, like Job ads, saying they need 15 parents. First come first served if you tick all the boxes. The rest of the applications get shredded. 
• Russia demand that you report back for the next 18 years of the child's life once you've adopted.
• In Bulgaria, you have to define on a 5 page questionnaire the child you're looking for. It's not about what you're like as parents-to-be. It's whether the child up for adoption fits exactly the child you want to look after. 
• Some African countries demand papers signed by priests.

As for adopting babies, we were told that it simply wasn't possible from abroad. You might be able to from Ethiopia, but you'd have to be under 35 years of age in four years time. The whole room of hopeful French parents sitting around me snorted.

You might be able to adopt a baby in France. The huge total 24 babies who were adopted last year did go to parents. But before you get too comfortable, we were reminded that most of the mothers were alcoholics or drug addicts. Drink while you're pregnant and your child can have serious development issues that only show up as they grow up. Age six you might discover they can never read or write. 

A 'celibate' (as they're called in French) next to me who was obviously hoping to adopt was told she'd have no luck in Africa. Most African countries demand five years of marriage at least. I tick that box. Shame then that I was only in the market for caucasian. The only time my neighbour could start scribbling in her book is if she would be comfortable adopting a handicapped child from China.

Some parents worked out a quicker way than working through the Hague Convention of certificates and regulations and went for 'individual adoption' where you run to a country outside of the convention, find an adoptable child, and get your signatures down on some papers fast. Russia fell under that category last year and subsequently found hundreds of its children adopted by French (the third biggest adopting country after Italy and the US). Those doors are closed now, apparently, and all eyes are on Vietnam.

Made me realise that people who say Adoption is a wonderful thing - giving a home to a child in need etc... - aren't quite right. There must be about 50 times the amount of parents than there are children. The only really selfless adoption, and where the parents deserve medals, are when a disabled child is adopted, or a child who's in his or her teens.

Made me realise too that you can't quite weigh up the alternatives of a newborn adopted child verses a newborn child from a surrogate because that's not realistic. The reality is a newborn child from surrogacy that costs you more than a college education in the US, versus a 6 year old from Africa or Asia that would join us in about five years time. Easy to see why surrogacy is now turning up in articles in OK! Magazine, in the Daily Mail, in daily conversations and on many peoples' bank balances.

The pitfalls of surrogacy – Look before you jump

No-one else is writing about it, so I’m stepping up to the plate. Turns out that official advice on surrogacy is something that is a dangerous game. Defy anyone to mess with a money making business after all.

I’m not saying that I’m suddenly a nun. I just had my eyes opened to the realities of a fast growing demand on a deregulated market. Add to that the complexities of my dearest country, India, with massive poverty, a douse of corruption and a lot of discrimination and things get a little messy.

Look before you jump.

Children born to surrogates in India are paperless. They’re stateless. They have no citizenship. You have to apply for that citizenship, creating that child’s existence on a blank piece of paper. I suppose in a similar way to the process of creating that child’s existence in a petri dish that you did nine months earlier.

If the surrogate mother is married, you have to acquire permission to parent the child that was born to her and her husband, despite the fact that the child’s made from your genes. You acquire permission and then you apply for a passport. Thus rack up the months. 

If the surrogate mother is not married, you’re on to an easier ride. But don’t get too comfortable. Remember your context.

Money makes the world go around

Clinics in India are making a fair whack through this sudden infertility escape route. Of the $23,000 you pay for your child (or, as the Embassy told me “they quite often come in twins. I should warn you”), only $1000 goes to the mother. Do with that what you will.

The rest of the money is swallowed by the clinic.  These clinics are businesses, and they have ways of squeezing more profits. It does seem a coincidence that many of the blogs out there hear of the children being born at 7.5 months, instead of 9. An earlier birth makes for a faster recycle of the mother, and a higher pay per month for that woman than if they waited the full term. A more vulnerable pre-term baby needing medical attention can put pressure on a faster turn around of papers in Embassies too.

Are the clinics telling the truth when they say the mother’s not married? One Immigration officer noticed that the name of a surrogate mother on the exit visa of one happy couple with their new child was the same name as had been on an exit visa used just 5 weeks earlier. If you’re not sure, and the Embassy’s not sure, your waiting time just increased a few more months again.

Back to healthy basics

Lastly, remember your values and live by them, despite whatever yearnings you may have. We’re all humans. These women are taking a health risk for your sake and because, no doubt, they need the money.

Where do the surrogate mothers live? What are the conditions like? If six appear to be living at the same address, it’s likely they’re not being housed anywhere as the clinic says and are probably just sloping home, possibly to a slum.  If the moral argument’s not doing it for you here, think of the future health prospects of your newborn. It can get murky.

FACT: 30% of the papers that are put into the British Embassy in Delhi for citizenship of surrogate children are fraudulent. 

BUT Surrogacy can be a smooth process if you've done the right research  

Follow your nouse. 

• Ask questions. Visit the clinic. 
• Ask to meet the mother. 
• Ask to see where she lives. 
• Ask about the conditions. 
• Ask if you can get proof of marital status. 
• Ask fellow clients how smooth the process was. If it took them 12-14 weeks and not 1000 questions, likely the clinic they went through is known by the Embassy and the papers they produce are legal.  If it took much longer, think again. 
• Ask how many children the mother has had. Surrogacy’s been a phenomenon there for 2-3 years, and women can only have 5 children by surrogacy by law in India in their lifetime. Think of how many births they’ve been through, what it’s done to their body and if there are any implications there for the medical supervision your clinic is offering them
• Read this page of guidance from the British Embassy in India

And then, then, you decide whether to take the plunge or not. 

Onwards and Upwards

Thank you for those who took the step of writing to me. Sorry to my husband who's querying my use of the word 'squidgy'

As promised, I bring you an entire posting on adoption and surrogacy. Get ready for a five minute lesson on why not to worry about your own fertility if you are, and on the weird and wonderful world we live in.

ADOPTION.

Photo to sum it up on the right

(being realistic about the age of the child in this case...): 

Welcome to the wonderful world of the Hague Convention. Before this was brought in, adopting from the US was a cinch. The Millibands did so for their two sons in 2007.
Now you have to apply for a homestudy in the country where you live. The 'Agrement pour Adoption' in my local language. We took a deep breath and have sent off the first of what I expect will be a barrage of documentation. Surprisingly, the French on the phone I've come across so far have been remarkably nice. This is rare, but perhaps they're carefully selected from amongst maternal nice people.

9 months later, apparently, after criminal record tests, medical certificates, photos, psychological tests and interviews with social services types (11 hours of interviews in total, apparently), you get your receipt. That lasts 5 years and for one child. With it, you can apply to adopt a child in any country within the Hague Convention. Most end up adopting from Africa/Asia because there's less of a time lag. We'd be going Caucasian and hopefully a baby. "I'm writing because we are interested in adopting a Caucasian newborn" go these remarkably surreal emails I've started sending to find an 'outgoing' adoption agency in the US.

Guess that if you didn't get the dream choice, as you couldn't bear the wait, the process would look a bit like this (right): 

The oddest part of this whole thing is coming across, on practically every adoption site, these dreadful photo listings of children who are up for adoption. I pick one, at random, to show you. It's dreadful to see them all lining up like that. For the older ones who are more adept on computers than me, it must be harrowing to see yourself up there for ages and no-one clicking 'interested'. Soul destroying no doubt. It is no surprise that the vast majority are disturbed and 'difficult' children. The 'ads' make devastating reading.
This is not a light and cheerful pass-time.

SURROGACY.

Delighted to say that I think I've made some good discoveries. The fear of surrogacy is that you part with 4 years salary and then the surrogate mother doesn't get pregnant/miscarries and you're left really sad and also really broke.

• Los Angeles (due to US medical fees) is simple but crushingly expensive at around 100-150K$ (depending on whether you need an egg donor too)
• Ukraine is about 20K$, but there are loads of reports of fake pregnancies or trafficking babies to pass off as genetic ones, and people running off with your cash, so I think I'd also opt for 5-10K$ with a legal firm who manage all the transactions and check your surrogate mother isn't a Nigerian with a fat cigar.
• UK we'd need to find a surrogate mother who liked the look of us. We'd have to move back too. There are no fees that swop hands between you and the mother. This is altuism at its best.
• India again is interesting as, while only costing around 25k$, it did have the downside of having to wait 3 months in India post birth to get UK citizenship for your child. My clever husband was born in the US, though, so we could apply for US citizenship which only takes 3-4 weeks, return home to France and apply for UK citizenship from here. As a Brit, you need to add on 5K for a 'parental order' so that you become the mother. This is tedious, but probably necessary.

Of all this lot, I think this agency is taking my interest the most, and answering my emails quickly and efficiently. According to one of the million online blogs/websites I've read on this all, that's something not to be disregarded. This is about efficiency and professionalism after all. It's a 'process'. They have a UK branch, they find you another surrogate if your 'chosen one' isn't able to get pregnant for no further fees and they have legal advisers for the genetic DNA checks and visa applications. Hell, they even send a chauffeur to pick you up from the airport. I've got about 20 email addresses of other 'intended parents' who've gone home with their tiny packages too. Next step blanket emailing 'Hello, I'm looking to etc....'. Again, very very surreal.


That's all. I hope this is more positive than the last update. Onwards and upwards as I said. Who knows, I might end up with triplets.


[If this was useful, you might find a more recent post about a meeting with a surrogacy agency I had interesting too, and - 'pitfalls of surrogacy. Look before you jump']

Is surrogacy greedy?

Well some just don't think twice do they. Story: Chinese parents have eight children by surrogates. 

(and, yes, all of these children are RIDICULOUSLY sweet. Especially the dumpling [sic] in the middle. Oh and the crying one. Asian children are always very cute, infact. Hmmmm. Nope. Back to own race. More on this later. Am garbling... In actual fact, though, this is a transparent portrayal of my thought processes these days. Garbled, dizzy thoughts that could all have huge implications if they don't land in the right formation.).

Interesting stat in the article, though, that 10% of couples have fertility problems. While my particular kidney related problem might be my current fascination, I do realise that I'm not on my own in facing these questions. In actual fact, knowing up front that this is my deal - nul points - is no bad thing. The waiting, the endless hoping and failing, must be the most soul destroying process, no doubt.

It seems stark that, while 10% of people are going through this, 10% of people aren't having children with surrogates. I think I might have got a little greedy thinking that it could be an option for me.  I've already had one borrowed organ. I shouldn't just move onto the next one so easily (ie. maternal functions on top of a kidney). I could be seen as just a little 'gourmand'?

I woke yesterday to this dull annoying ache positioned right above my kidney. Behind my ribs. In my back and  my stomach. Having been a hard nosed anti-hyperchondriac dudette prior to my kidney troubles, I now find this little stomach pain makes me go to bed early, tucking the sheets up under my nose and feeling terrified at what it could be: appendicitis? Pancreatitis? Something gross in my colon? Kidney infection/stones? Fallopian tube pregnancy? I ring the doctor to be comforted and they've prescribed me an xray of the kidney and my abdomen and a whole series of blood tests. I will woop like a chimpanzee on my way into hospital and hope I don't come out with blue skin.

The possibility of the Immaculate Conception

Stop the press. Rebekah Brooks has child by Surrogate
Do you think she's got an injunction on the name of the surrogate mother?

If, at the age of 43, on police bail, and, at one time, named 'the most hated woman in Britain, she can find someone to carry your child for you, surely we could too?

While we're reporting the news as well, I just discovered, relevant to my last post, that in 2008, one in five of every pregnancy was aborted. That makes a staggering total of 43.8million abortions in that one year. I'm most definitely pro-choice, and I don't want to suggest that I'm not, just that all these things take on a different perspective in my current situation.

The immaculate conception, given all the wonky tonky medicines and procedures that you can do nowadays just doesn't seem all that impossible. Mary was really onto something.

Pro-life and adoption agencies

Someone isn't doing the maths. One one side you have women who are pregnant, don't want the baby but can't face abortion. On the other you have couples desperate for children who can't have them. Mix the two together and you get explosions of fizzy pop and marshmallows.

Seems that Prolife doesn't much care about what happens once the child is born, though, just that the child is born at all.

I recognise that, if you've made the step to adopt a child that's not your own, some might say it's not that much further a push to consider adopting a child that is 3 or 4 years old and comes with a difficult upbringing. The heartstrings are sensitive after all and they're talking to a primed, overly effusive maternal audience.

However, Adoption UK have this terrible Wall they put up showing how wonderful healthy children have perfect upbringing with love, security, milk, cuddles, education, trust, family, attention, friends etc.... Watch, then as they bring the bricks crashing down one by one in this excrutiatingly painfully slow process with explanations for dummies where they say, eg, 'Love. They may not have had any and might not want yours'. 'cuddles. They won't have had many due to abuse and won't trust yours'. 'FRIENDS. Coz they didn't get cuddles they might not want friends etc...'. I sort of expected them to then write 'HUMAN NATURE. Due to not have all those previous bricks, they might not be normal'.

Anyway. You get my point. It seemed rather over the top, although I know they're just trying to ram the point home. Smashing that dream again I guess.

POP

Social media campaign to find surrogate mother

 I read a remarkable article about a Social Media campaign to find a bone marrow donor on Mashable which got me thinking. The possibilities are endless, I thought. Why not look for a surrogate mother in the same way. '#FindKateaSurrogate'. Accompanied by a twitpic of me and my husband, it could be an extremely effective message board. The army of mummy bloggers out on the net might actually feel they could get to know me through this blog.

My hands would still be tied, however, by the fact that I live in France where surrogacy is illegal. Check the story of the French couple (left) whose twins were denied French citizenship because they'd been born by a Surrogate in California.

So maybe I could do a twitter campaign for the UK only and then uproot my husband and myself back to England so we count as UK residents to be able to apply for UK laws on surrogacy? It's a thought, albeit a fairly destructive one.

I can see why people in the UK opt for the surrogacy clinics in India - you pay more, and you have to stay there for 3 months at the end to get your paperwork, but it only takes 9 months. Or California where you pay, but you earn back fourfold in the time you save looking for a surrogate who 'clicks with you' in the UK.

What strikes me every time I sit back and think about this is that my kidney disease was the tip of the iceberg. It has led to a kidney transplant (that involved dragging my family through the treadmill too), to numerous infections and snotty noses, to an insurance nightmare, to an inability to travel (and so visit developing countries which the organisation I work for supports), to a high risk of cancer, and now to what's equivalent to infertility.

That first day when the doctor in Ladbroke Grove, London, told me I had scarily high blood pressure and I locked up my bike and, in my flip flops, rang my husband to say I'd best go and check it out in hospital, I did NOT think it would translate into an avalanche of problems like this.

Thankfully doctors break the news of each of these delights to you bit by bit and not all at the start. Managing a transplant patient is a test of empathy, patience, humanity, and, I would have thought, must be an absolutely exhausting job. I rocked up all jolly, and 2 years later, I feel I've been battered round the head by Mohammed Ali

Kidney has permanent scarring

Feel like I've got a world record. I've been incredibly successful in failing to keep the kidney I was so kindly given happy and welcome in its new home. I rejected it unceremoniously for a few months, and then I got it nice and infected for good measure. I lost 100 creatinine points in so doing, landing at a round, and nasty sounding 200. That's 30% or so of kidney function remaining for those not in the medicinal know. You don't need to have any sort of degree to know it doesn't sound good.

I had an odd, almost out of body experience as I said, numbed and placid before a matronly consultant I've never met before and heard her say, in French, that I was unlikely ever to have children. They can't say for sure as it's such a big thing to say with just one biopsy that is, after all, not representative of the whole kidney given that they only take out such a tiny part, but it's not looking promising. My 'vascular' whatevers apparently aren't doing all that well after the long beating I've given them over the past 6 months. Whoopideedoodar.

I immediately, being female, a planner, and (although struggling a bit more now...) usually optimistic, have started looking at my options. They are:
1. Nothing. hope I'll defy all medical history and pop out a couple of beeming children, to the applause of all my friends of family. 'What a trooper' they cry. 'Only Kate!' etc... Yah right.

2. I go down the SURROGACY route. A friend's sister is in fact Avey in this blog . This is the surrogacy clinic that manages the whole thing. You have to stay in the country for 3 months when you pick up the child because that's how long it takes for the UK Embassy to administer a passport for your confused child.

3. Adoption... I just see words like 'Conseil General' and find myself downloading spreadsheets and ven diagrams and power point presentations like this one

Hard not to notice the big words, '9 MOIS' or 'AGREMENT REFUSE'.

Given my kidney luck, I'll probably be rejected a nice two years into the process.

And let's not forget the wonderful confusion of us being two Brits living in France.

Am I resident in the UK? Can I apply for Surrogacy UK? If I adopt a kid in France, is my kid then also British or would my own child then be of a different nationality from me?

Obviously, if anyone is in the same position as me (highly unlikely I now realise) or thinks they can help, I'd love some advice.

Feeling more than a little bit lost.